az-willie wrote in message news:...
> zerge said on 3/29/2004 2:58 PM:
>
> >az-willie wrote in message news:...
> >
> >
> >>zerge said on 3/25/2004 10:18 PM:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>az-willie wrote in message news:...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>zerge said on 3/25/2004 8:27 AM:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>==========
> >>>>>>You neglect to mention one of the prime problems ... the social
> >>>>>>structure. With a super wealthy class presiding over masses of poverty
> >>>>>>striken peons. And their unwillingness to bear even the slightest
> >>>>>>taxation to support any social programs.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Poverty is considered the rightful condition of the peons. The super
> >>>>>>wealthy landowners could well afford to pay their employees much more,
> >>>>>>but they don't consider them deserving ... only they and their kin
> >>>>>>should have money in their view.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>While millions of Mexicans dare the desert there is a daily flight from
> >>>>>>Mexico City to Las Vegas for the wealthy to fly over their peons
> >>>>>>crossing the desert into the U.S. while they sip champagne on their way
> >>>>>>to play.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>The wealthy refuse to support any social programs. No unemployment. No
> >>>>>>welfare. No support for families in trouble.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>The class structure is one of the biggest impediments to improving life
> >>>>>>in Mexico.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>Oh, shut up Marx.
> >>>>>Go check the social structure in YOUR country. You don't even realize.
> >>>>>YOU, YOU, YOU are at the mercy of Wall Street. The Fed makes sure that
> >>>>>inflation stays low so securities may be bought and sold in the
> >>>>>secondary market. Do you know how you control inflation? By keeping
> >>>>>people unemployed. Go get an education first.
> >>>>>Walmart could also afford to pay you more, but it doesn't. You know
> >>>>>nothing about capitalism and how the economy works.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>============
> >>>>I know enough that I retired when I was 54 and I trade options for fun
> >>>>and profit now as a hobby.
> >>>>
> >>>>From your vitriolic reply I can make a judgement that you are a member
> >>>>of that super wealthy class I spoke of.
> >>>>
> >>>>Looks like I hit a sore spot, eh?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>Vitriolic reply? LOL. You seem to be new around. Let the regulars on
> >>>this ng vouch for me when I say that I OOZE vitriol. People WORRY
> >>>about me when I'm not sarcastic; they think I may be sick or
> >>>something. Do a search for "zerge" on these ngs so you can get a load
> >>>of my tone.
> >>>I'm not super wealthy, no. But I AM well-off. But you know what? I
> >>>started from ZERO. I was a dirt poor student. When I finished college
> >>>in the US, where I studied AND worked full time, I came back to my
> >>>country, Mexico. I arrived literally with $10 bucks in my pocket, the
> >>>clothes I was wearing, and my school backpack
> >>>here>.
> >>>I worked hard and smart, took risks, dared, and 10 years later, I own
> >>>my own business and have a 6 figure income (in dollars).
> >>>So don't come to me to bitch about the lack of social mobility in
> >>>Mexico. I did it, I've seen other people do it.
> >>>The social structure in Mexico is an effect, not a cause. Go read some
> >>>books or something.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>=================
> >>So you did it all by yourself and now make the huge sume of $100,000 per
> >>or so.
> >>
> >>How did you come to go to college in the U.S.? Did your parents send
> >>you? Were you illegal?
> >>
> >>You take such pride in your accomplishments but seem to offer no
> >>recognition to your luck in being born in the situation where you had
> >>the opportunity to go to college at all, let alone in the U.S. Most of
> >>your countries peons are born into such situations that it would be
> >>virtually impossible for them.
> >>
> >>Every culture has had people who were lucky enough to escape poverty and
> >>rise up. There were Roman slaves who got their freedom and became
> >>Senators etc. etc. Out of any massive population there will be a lucky few.
> >>
> >>The fact you had the opportunity you had makes me suspect you come from
> >>a well off family ... perhaps not the super wealthy I spoke of but
> >>wealthy enough at any rate that you had opportunities that the majority
> >>of your countrymen do not have. Yet you think you did it all by
> >>yourself. You worked and you risked but you were in a position to take
> >>the risks etc. etc. And you were there because of accidents of birth.
> >>Now you think you did it all on your own merit. ha ha ha ha
> >>
> >>In this country you would just be a typical self-centered right winger.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >CAN you go to college being an illegal? I honestly don't know. No, I
> >was legal, I got a scholarship.
> >I was born lower middle class in Mexico. I DID go to good schools in
> >Mexico, but at a great sacrificy on the part of my father, and I thank
> >him for that.
> >Look, I see social mobility all the time in Mexico. I'm here, you are
> >not. I know my country, you do not. I try to be as intellectually
> >honest as possible; when sobody points out a problematic area of
> >Mexico, and it is true, I'm the first one to agree. Like Oliver when
> >he said that courts in Mexico are a joke. I agree! THAT is one of the
> >problems about the country.
> >As to the "social structure" being a cause of poverty, nope. The
> >social structure is a symptom of the disease, not a cause of the
> >disease.
> >I maintain my hypothesis: if you work hard in Mexico, you CAN make it.
> >It is certainly not easy; it's tough going. But you can do it. You can
> >choose to believe me or not. But that's the way it is.
> >
> >
> =============
> It worked for you ONLY because your parents were able to send to you to
> good schools. You grew up in a middle class environment by your own
> admission, which is far better than the majority of your countrymen.
>
> You had advantages that most of your countryment do not, yet refuse to
> admit that. Not everyone has the family resources and background you
> had. Not everyone is able to get the education you got enabling you to
> get a scholarship. Nor could many of your people get a visa to come to
> school here. I'm sure many many strings were pulled in your behalf ..
> but you continue to claim you did it all by yourself so anyone can.
>
> Buddy, anyone can't. There are millions of peons on the farms living
> under virtual survival conditions. Many don't get to go to school
> because the families need them to work to survive.
>
> You are a poster boy for the social structure problem I was talking about.
>
> There is none so blind as he who will not see.
You talk in extremes. Of COURSE there are people stuck so deep the
chances of them ever getting out are dim. I've worked with the poor in
volunteer jobs, so don't come here preaching. I've been at ground
zero, so I KNOW what I'm talking about. So OK, if I agree that there
are peons stuck in survival mode, you must agree that there are plenty
of people that, with enough effort, could climb out if they wanted.
But they don't.
My main point is this my friend, to make things clear: the government
can do only so much for the people. The people have to lift themselves
up and FIX THEIR OWN PROBLEMS. Has the government done enough? No. But
it is not sitting on its hands either. Within the current situation,
many Mexicans could climb the social ladder if they wanted. Some are,
some are not. Period. |