On 5 Apr 2004 11:28:51 -0700, zerge@hotmail.com (zerge) wrote:
>az-willie wrote in message news:...
>> zerge said on 3/29/2004 2:58 PM:
>>
>> >az-willie wrote in message news:...
>> >
>> >
>> >>zerge said on 3/25/2004 10:18 PM:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>az-willie wrote in message news:...
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>zerge said on 3/25/2004 8:27 AM:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>==========
>> >>>>>>You neglect to mention one of the prime problems ... the social
>> >>>>>>structure. With a super wealthy class presiding over masses of poverty
>> >>>>>>striken peons. And their unwillingness to bear even the slightest
>> >>>>>>taxation to support any social programs.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>Poverty is considered the rightful condition of the peons. The super
>> >>>>>>wealthy landowners could well afford to pay their employees much more,
>> >>>>>>but they don't consider them deserving ... only they and their kin
>> >>>>>>should have money in their view.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>While millions of Mexicans dare the desert there is a daily flight from
>> >>>>>>Mexico City to Las Vegas for the wealthy to fly over their peons
>> >>>>>>crossing the desert into the U.S. while they sip champagne on their way
>> >>>>>>to play.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>The wealthy refuse to support any social programs. No unemployment. No
>> >>>>>>welfare. No support for families in trouble.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>The class structure is one of the biggest impediments to improving life
>> >>>>>>in Mexico.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>Oh, shut up Marx.
>> >>>>>Go check the social structure in YOUR country. You don't even realize.
>> >>>>>YOU, YOU, YOU are at the mercy of Wall Street. The Fed makes sure that
>> >>>>>inflation stays low so securities may be bought and sold in the
>> >>>>>secondary market. Do you know how you control inflation? By keeping
>> >>>>>people unemployed. Go get an education first.
>> >>>>>Walmart could also afford to pay you more, but it doesn't. You know
>> >>>>>nothing about capitalism and how the economy works.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>============
>> >>>>I know enough that I retired when I was 54 and I trade options for fun
>> >>>>and profit now as a hobby.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>From your vitriolic reply I can make a judgement that you are a member
>> >>>>of that super wealthy class I spoke of.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Looks like I hit a sore spot, eh?
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>Vitriolic reply? LOL. You seem to be new around. Let the regulars on
>> >>>this ng vouch for me when I say that I OOZE vitriol. People WORRY
>> >>>about me when I'm not sarcastic; they think I may be sick or
>> >>>something. Do a search for "zerge" on these ngs so you can get a load
>> >>>of my tone.
>> >>>I'm not super wealthy, no. But I AM well-off. But you know what? I
>> >>>started from ZERO. I was a dirt poor student. When I finished college
>> >>>in the US, where I studied AND worked full time, I came back to my
>> >>>country, Mexico. I arrived literally with $10 bucks in my pocket, the
>> >>>clothes I was wearing, and my school backpack
>> >>>here>.
>> >>>I worked hard and smart, took risks, dared, and 10 years later, I own
>> >>>my own business and have a 6 figure income (in dollars).
>> >>>So don't come to me to bitch about the lack of social mobility in
>> >>>Mexico. I did it, I've seen other people do it.
>> >>>The social structure in Mexico is an effect, not a cause. Go read some
>> >>>books or something.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>=================
>> >>So you did it all by yourself and now make the huge sume of $100,000 per
>> >>or so.
>> >>
>> >>How did you come to go to college in the U.S.? Did your parents send
>> >>you? Were you illegal?
>> >>
>> >>You take such pride in your accomplishments but seem to offer no
>> >>recognition to your luck in being born in the situation where you had
>> >>the opportunity to go to college at all, let alone in the U.S. Most of
>> >>your countries peons are born into such situations that it would be
>> >>virtually impossible for them.
>> >>
>> >>Every culture has had people who were lucky enough to escape poverty and
>> >>rise up. There were Roman slaves who got their freedom and became
>> >>Senators etc. etc. Out of any massive population there will be a lucky few.
>> >>
>> >>The fact you had the opportunity you had makes me suspect you come from
>> >>a well off family ... perhaps not the super wealthy I spoke of but
>> >>wealthy enough at any rate that you had opportunities that the majority
>> >>of your countrymen do not have. Yet you think you did it all by
>> >>yourself. You worked and you risked but you were in a position to take
>> >>the risks etc. etc. And you were there because of accidents of birth.
>> >>Now you think you did it all on your own merit. ha ha ha ha
>> >>
>> >>In this country you would just be a typical self-centered right winger.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >CAN you go to college being an illegal? I honestly don't know. No, I
>> >was legal, I got a scholarship.
>> >I was born lower middle class in Mexico. I DID go to good schools in
>> >Mexico, but at a great sacrificy on the part of my father, and I thank
>> >him for that.
>> >Look, I see social mobility all the time in Mexico. I'm here, you are
>> >not. I know my country, you do not. I try to be as intellectually
>> >honest as possible; when sobody points out a problematic area of
>> >Mexico, and it is true, I'm the first one to agree. Like Oliver when
>> >he said that courts in Mexico are a joke. I agree! THAT is one of the
>> >problems about the country.
>> >As to the "social structure" being a cause of poverty, nope. The
>> >social structure is a symptom of the disease, not a cause of the
>> >disease.
>> >I maintain my hypothesis: if you work hard in Mexico, you CAN make it.
>> >It is certainly not easy; it's tough going. But you can do it. You can
>> >choose to believe me or not. But that's the way it is.
>> >
>> >
>> =============
>> It worked for you ONLY because your parents were able to send to you to
>> good schools. You grew up in a middle class environment by your own
>> admission, which is far better than the majority of your countrymen.
>>
>> You had advantages that most of your countryment do not, yet refuse to
>> admit that. Not everyone has the family resources and background you
>> had. Not everyone is able to get the education you got enabling you to
>> get a scholarship. Nor could many of your people get a visa to come to
>> school here. I'm sure many many strings were pulled in your behalf ..
>> but you continue to claim you did it all by yourself so anyone can.
>>
>> Buddy, anyone can't. There are millions of peons on the farms living
>> under virtual survival conditions. Many don't get to go to school
>> because the families need them to work to survive.
>>
>> You are a poster boy for the social structure problem I was talking about.
>>
>> There is none so blind as he who will not see.
>
>You talk in extremes. Of COURSE there are people stuck so deep the
>chances of them ever getting out are dim. I've worked with the poor in
>volunteer jobs, so don't come here preaching. I've been at ground
>zero, so I KNOW what I'm talking about. So OK, if I agree that there
>are peons stuck in survival mode, you must agree that there are plenty
>of people that, with enough effort, could climb out if they wanted.
>But they don't.
>My main point is this my friend, to make things clear: the government
>can do only so much for the people. The people have to lift themselves
>up and FIX THEIR OWN PROBLEMS. Has the government done enough? No. But
>it is not sitting on its hands either. Within the current situation,
>many Mexicans could climb the social ladder if they wanted. Some are,
>some are not. Period.
A few arer, most are not. The barriers are much higher in Mexico than
in the US or Europe. |