Oliver Costich wrote in message news:...
> On 5 Apr 2004 11:28:51 -0700, zerge@hotmail.com (zerge) wrote:
>
> >az-willie wrote in message news:...
> >> zerge said on 3/29/2004 2:58 PM:
> >>
> >> >az-willie wrote in message news:...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>zerge said on 3/25/2004 10:18 PM:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>>az-willie wrote in message news:...
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>>zerge said on 3/25/2004 8:27 AM:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>>>==========
> >> >>>>>>You neglect to mention one of the prime problems ... the social
> >> >>>>>>structure. With a super wealthy class presiding over masses of poverty
> >> >>>>>>striken peons. And their unwillingness to bear even the slightest
> >> >>>>>>taxation to support any social programs.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>Poverty is considered the rightful condition of the peons. The super
> >> >>>>>>wealthy landowners could well afford to pay their employees much more,
> >> >>>>>>but they don't consider them deserving ... only they and their kin
> >> >>>>>>should have money in their view.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>While millions of Mexicans dare the desert there is a daily flight from
> >> >>>>>>Mexico City to Las Vegas for the wealthy to fly over their peons
> >> >>>>>>crossing the desert into the U.S. while they sip champagne on their way
> >> >>>>>>to play.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>The wealthy refuse to support any social programs. No unemployment. No
> >> >>>>>>welfare. No support for families in trouble.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>The class structure is one of the biggest impediments to improving life
> >> >>>>>>in Mexico.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>Oh, shut up Marx.
> >> >>>>>Go check the social structure in YOUR country. You don't even realize.
> >> >>>>>YOU, YOU, YOU are at the mercy of Wall Street. The Fed makes sure that
> >> >>>>>inflation stays low so securities may be bought and sold in the
> >> >>>>>secondary market. Do you know how you control inflation? By keeping
> >> >>>>>people unemployed. Go get an education first.
> >> >>>>>Walmart could also afford to pay you more, but it doesn't. You know
> >> >>>>>nothing about capitalism and how the economy works.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>============
> >> >>>>I know enough that I retired when I was 54 and I trade options for fun
> >> >>>>and profit now as a hobby.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>From your vitriolic reply I can make a judgement that you are a member
> >> >>>>of that super wealthy class I spoke of.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>Looks like I hit a sore spot, eh?
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>Vitriolic reply? LOL. You seem to be new around. Let the regulars on
> >> >>>this ng vouch for me when I say that I OOZE vitriol. People WORRY
> >> >>>about me when I'm not sarcastic; they think I may be sick or
> >> >>>something. Do a search for "zerge" on these ngs so you can get a load
> >> >>>of my tone.
> >> >>>I'm not super wealthy, no. But I AM well-off. But you know what? I
> >> >>>started from ZERO. I was a dirt poor student. When I finished college
> >> >>>in the US, where I studied AND worked full time, I came back to my
> >> >>>country, Mexico. I arrived literally with $10 bucks in my pocket, the
> >> >>>clothes I was wearing, and my school backpack
> >> >>>here>.
> >> >>>I worked hard and smart, took risks, dared, and 10 years later, I own
> >> >>>my own business and have a 6 figure income (in dollars).
> >> >>>So don't come to me to bitch about the lack of social mobility in
> >> >>>Mexico. I did it, I've seen other people do it.
> >> >>>The social structure in Mexico is an effect, not a cause. Go read some
> >> >>>books or something.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>=================
> >> >>So you did it all by yourself and now make the huge sume of $100,000 per
> >> >>or so.
> >> >>
> >> >>How did you come to go to college in the U.S.? Did your parents send
> >> >>you? Were you illegal?
> >> >>
> >> >>You take such pride in your accomplishments but seem to offer no
> >> >>recognition to your luck in being born in the situation where you had
> >> >>the opportunity to go to college at all, let alone in the U.S. Most of
> >> >>your countries peons are born into such situations that it would be
> >> >>virtually impossible for them.
> >> >>
> >> >>Every culture has had people who were lucky enough to escape poverty and
> >> >>rise up. There were Roman slaves who got their freedom and became
> >> >>Senators etc. etc. Out of any massive population there will be a lucky few.
> >> >>
> >> >>The fact you had the opportunity you had makes me suspect you come from
> >> >>a well off family ... perhaps not the super wealthy I spoke of but
> >> >>wealthy enough at any rate that you had opportunities that the majority
> >> >>of your countrymen do not have. Yet you think you did it all by
> >> >>yourself. You worked and you risked but you were in a position to take
> >> >>the risks etc. etc. And you were there because of accidents of birth.
> >> >>Now you think you did it all on your own merit. ha ha ha ha
> >> >>
> >> >>In this country you would just be a typical self-centered right winger.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >CAN you go to college being an illegal? I honestly don't know. No, I
> >> >was legal, I got a scholarship.
> >> >I was born lower middle class in Mexico. I DID go to good schools in
> >> >Mexico, but at a great sacrificy on the part of my father, and I thank
> >> >him for that.
> >> >Look, I see social mobility all the time in Mexico. I'm here, you are
> >> >not. I know my country, you do not. I try to be as intellectually
> >> >honest as possible; when sobody points out a problematic area of
> >> >Mexico, and it is true, I'm the first one to agree. Like Oliver when
> >> >he said that courts in Mexico are a joke. I agree! THAT is one of the
> >> >problems about the country.
> >> >As to the "social structure" being a cause of poverty, nope. The
> >> >social structure is a symptom of the disease, not a cause of the
> >> >disease.
> >> >I maintain my hypothesis: if you work hard in Mexico, you CAN make it.
> >> >It is certainly not easy; it's tough going. But you can do it. You can
> >> >choose to believe me or not. But that's the way it is.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> =============
> >> It worked for you ONLY because your parents were able to send to you to
> >> good schools. You grew up in a middle class environment by your own
> >> admission, which is far better than the majority of your countrymen.
> >>
> >> You had advantages that most of your countryment do not, yet refuse to
> >> admit that. Not everyone has the family resources and background you
> >> had. Not everyone is able to get the education you got enabling you to
> >> get a scholarship. Nor could many of your people get a visa to come to
> >> school here. I'm sure many many strings were pulled in your behalf ..
> >> but you continue to claim you did it all by yourself so anyone can.
> >>
> >> Buddy, anyone can't. There are millions of peons on the farms living
> >> under virtual survival conditions. Many don't get to go to school
> >> because the families need them to work to survive.
> >>
> >> You are a poster boy for the social structure problem I was talking about.
> >>
> >> There is none so blind as he who will not see.
> >
> >You talk in extremes. Of COURSE there are people stuck so deep the
> >chances of them ever getting out are dim. I've worked with the poor in
> >volunteer jobs, so don't come here preaching. I've been at ground
> >zero, so I KNOW what I'm talking about. So OK, if I agree that there
> >are peons stuck in survival mode, you must agree that there are plenty
> >of people that, with enough effort, could climb out if they wanted.
> >But they don't.
> >My main point is this my friend, to make things clear: the government
> >can do only so much for the people. The people have to lift themselves
> >up and FIX THEIR OWN PROBLEMS. Has the government done enough? No. But
> >it is not sitting on its hands either. Within the current situation,
> >many Mexicans could climb the social ladder if they wanted. Some are,
> >some are not. Period.
>
> A few arer, most are not. The barriers are much higher in Mexico than
> in the US or Europe.
There is no arguing against that. But breaking the barrier is a matter
of determination and will. |