"Fly Guy" wrote in message news:413A859C.40027075@Guy.com...
> Matt wrote:
>
> > By that statement you are implying that you agree with the idea
> > of a NFL, in principal, if it could be implemented better. And
> > that's exactly what I'm saying.
>
> I'd be for a no fly list if:
>
> 1) The _number_ of entries or names on the list is publically
> divulged.
> 2) The nature or reason why each name is on the list is publically
> divulged.
> 3) The number of names that belong to US citizens is publically
> divulged
> 4) If any name on the NFL belongs to a US citizen, then by law the
> gov't (or agency maintaining the NFL) must make a continuous and
> competent effort to find or contact that person and (a) inform them
> they are on the list and tell them why, and (b) give them legal
> recourse to challenge their inclusion on the list.
> 5) A bullet-proof mechanism exists to eliminate repeat
> false-positives, preferrably by entering specific additional
> information AT THE GATE or AT THE TICKET COUNTER when confronted with
> the false-positive person such that that person will never trigger the
> NFL again.
>
> - items (1), (2) and (3) do not require that the names themselves be
> publically divulged
>
> Tell me why a no-fly-list with any or all of the above characteristics
> would degrade the performance or effectiveness of the current list.
My only complaint is that there is no easy way to get off the list. I don't
have a problem with your suggestions, except number 4. Simply because what
if the person happens to be in the middle of an ongoing investigation. You
wouldn't exactly want to have to notify them that they are on the list and
why.
> > > Hasn't the premis changed from "obey the hijacker and you will
> > > live" to "combat the hijacker(s) if you want to live" ?
> >
> > I agree, but do you really expect the government or airlines to come
> > up with a formal policy that says "In the case of the hijacking,
> > passengers should combat the hijackers."
> > Can you not see why that would never happen?
>
> It won't happen if the authorities and policy-makers are cowards.
>
> In 5 years, another 9-11 situation could happen and the passengers
> would just look around in a hysterical daze while the hijackers shout
> at them to be quite and stay in their seats. They will say "if anyone
> gets up, you will all die". The pax will believe it. And you will be
> frustrated that no-one other than yourself has the balls or "wisdom"
> to know that the correct action is to combat the hijackers. That's
> because airline passengers will not have been conditioned to know that
> the correct response is to confront the hijackers. They will not have
> been conditioned because they have NOT heard any such reinforcing
> message because that message hasn't been incorporated into the
> standard pre-flight announcements.
We will just have to disagree on that point. My feeling is that
announcement or not, passengers are going to react in that kind of a
situation individually. Some will be a more agressive and want to fight the
hijacker and some will want to sit on the sidelines. An announcement is not
going to change that. Plus, there could easily be situations where the
passengers would make it worse if they were to fight the hijackers, and I
think that is why we will never see such an announcement.
>
> And if the attendant has had their throat cut, will you still expect a
> call for help from the attendant?
>
> Cut the crap.
>
> You are sitting in your seat. 1 or more men get up and announce that
> they are taking over the plane. The flight attendants are either dead
> or out of ear-shot. What will you do? How much will your decision
> depend on what other passengers believe is the right or prudent thing
> to do?
I don't know what I would do. It would depend on the specific
situation....how many hijackers there were, whether the pilots were still in
control of the plane, how the other passengers were reacting, where I was
seated, whether my family was on board, etc, etc, etc. There are a 1,000
variables to consider in such a situation. I DO know that my decision of
what to do would have absolutely nothing to do with some stupid official
announcement that was read off prior to take off.
Matt
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