Sapphyre wrote:
> BimmerBoy wrote:
> > Thanks for a very honest post. I think people who travel around the
> > world are at least middle class by NA standards so they don't see and
> > understand things that you saw, and are often, relatively,
>
> I grew up very sheltered and didn't know anything about life until I
> was maybe 15... this is mainly due to complete isolation from my peers.
> I knew of things only as I saw them at school, and since I was
> unpopular, I never got to know many of the other kids.
In other cases, university is always a mind-opening experience....
>
> When I did get to know about life, I got to know it all at once. Where
> I used to live in work was this bad neighbourhood, ironically, the same
> place I went to junior high school. The elementary school was on the
> good side of the tracks, the junior high was not. There are streets in
> this city that divided rich from poor. I didn't actively live on the
> streets, but some of my friends did. People I went to highschool with
> grew up and lived the rest of their lives (to date) being dirt poor.
> Because of my sheltered upbringing and complete distrust of everyone, I
> cannot see myself being in a country and having my "heart melt" (as
> another poster discribed) at something that strikes me as an obvious
> threat. I also do not like children (generally speaking), so that might
> change my perspective.
You're making me sound like a bleeding heart liberal on
soc.culture.china, where people implicitly accuse of me of being
'heartless', being a 'rich kid'. So soc.culture.china (and not the
infinitely more educated rec.travel.asia) wake up and listen up!
There's another world out there that you guys can't even begin to
imagine.
>
> I will state for the record, according to Canadian standards, my
> partner and I have an above middle-class income, but we've never grown
> out of our cheap penny-pinching ways. I earn more per year than my
> mother, and have a house that's comparable in value. My mother doesn't
> work much, but gets paid more when she does, but overall, we earn the
> same. You'd never know it... people would think I'm on welfare, and
> they'd think she's a rich heiress with a trust account. I think that's
> also made a difference in our chosen destinations. My mom vyes
> vacations in Singapore and Hong Kong for shopping, and spending time in
> Paris and other parts of Europe. My dream vacations include Greenland,
> Scandanavia, Antarctica (laugh if you want, I can dream), and in the
> real future, Siberia on the Trans-Siberian Railway. We have the money
> to go first class and be safe, and we can afford a safe (yet expensive)
> hotel, in a place where others go and don't spend much for the same
> vacation.
Same with many mainland Chinese in their granddaddy mentality! Where do
they want to visit? NYC! Chicago! London! Paris! Moscow! Why? They're
not going there for themselves. No way! They're travelling in order to
brush up their resume. It's just as bad as driving a Mercedes vs a real
car, like a porsche or BMW with M package! The rest of us may want to
'discover that tiny little forgotten island in Thailand' etc, have that
treasured sense of inner peace, perhaps relive that sense of Tao even,
yet some are just so relentless in their quest for something, anything,
that they didn't have and to claim that they've been there and
therefore it's now theirs. Difference is ownership vs experience I
think.
>
> > psychologically disarmed. In parts of Europe (e.g. Bratislava) things
> > can be really really bad. It's just from 2nd degree personal experience
>
> Bratislava was a joke on a movie I saw last night (Euro Trip)... but
> thanks for using it as a reference. It puts things in perspective.
>
Never saw the movie but I can perhaps understand your point...
> > when someone in a tour group (went with parents) a few years ago got
> > pickpocketed and lost like $700 US cash and kept complaining about
> > this. Now what the hell would you be carrying $700 US in cash anyway in
> > your wallet for in East Europe?
>
> Well, from my life's experence, I never carried only one wallet... in
> fact, I never carried any wallet. My papers and money were always well
> concealed into something that could not be removed from me all that
> easily. (A belt under my sweater or something like that). And that's
> just for travelling the US, which I've done so with some of the lower
> classes of travellers (Greyhound). It's easier to deal with losing one
> credit card than all of them, that's why I don't like wallets. I don't
> know what things cost in East Europe... I couldn't say if that sounded
> reasonable. I've never been anywhere yet that I couldn't use plastic,
> and I do know in some countries credit card numbers will be stolen.
>
What do you mean you've never been anywhere. No offense but you seem to
be thinking like 1980s 3rd world Chinese!! Carrying multiple wallets?
Kinda like afraid of being kidnapped? It's like locking yourself in in
your house or car so you won't be kidnapped! Like gated communities to
be fair - are you locking people out or are you locking yourself in?
> > I also doubt if your looks would blend
> > you in in Eastern Europe unless you grew up there for a substantial
> > period of time. At least not to locals. And esp not wrt pickpockets!
>
> Whenever I speak, it would be readily obvious... I know clothing is
> often a dead give away, but I tend to dress in non-brand, non-descript
> stuff. I travel with even more plain wardrobe, and it's very much in my
> personality to shop for a whole new set of duds while travelling
> because I like wearing that stuff around my own town (because it's
> different than the trends).
Only the rich can afford to look poor. I go out in shorts and
flip-flops. Obscene enough for the 'club casual' crowd? Baha! Beat
that! (Or maybe I'm already poisoned) :)
>
> > Locals of any country even if you're from the same racial or ethnic
> > group have a way of identifying a travelling foreigner with such ease
> > with such finesse that you think they've undergone Olympic training or
> > something. And even if you speak the language without an accent - and
> > even if your mannerisms blend in etc, you are probably a target of
> > criminals and pickpockets - at least higher risk than another guy or
> > gal from the native local population by how you dress, how you walk the
> > walk, how you talk the talk wrt slang etc. There's probably little
> > escape. :)
>
> True enough, but I guess it depends on the situation. The situation I
> described with the kids throwing rocks at the car... Well if they are
> blockading your passage and tossing rocks at you, I can't see any other
> solution but to do what my partner said, just toss the coins and watch
> them scatter. Even one coin would probably get them all running to see
> "who gets to keep it". That being said, I might bring pennies with me
> just for that occasion (or get some in their local currency, at least
> they can spend them...) That tree hugging scam really freaked me out,
> and my partner warned me I'd have to react fast to avoid being in the
> situation of having a child glued to my leg making me uncomfortable and
> causing a scene, or paying them to go away.
>
Though it is way more than possible that the more you throw them the
more kids will hug around you. Positive feedback. It's true, sometimes
you maybe saving yourself if you're tough.
> It's kind of easy to think about what you would do when you're not
> doing it or faced with the situation...
>
> Well, I've been faced with a few, and all I can say, I'm not a very
> good victim. I can stay calm even when other people are or would be
> freaking out. I figure that during robberies and other violent crime,
> they expect a freaking out reaction, and I'm just not going to give
> someone the satisfaction. Plenty of time to freak out later, in my
> mind, it's do or die.
>
> S.
You're more respectable and you're a better person your way.
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