On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 21:18:55 +0000, tr2267 wrote:
> In article ,
> rwwff wrote:
>>Nope, those folks are in the core democratic wage class. Can you
>>cut availability of MRI's, tests, etc? No, patients will go
>>beserk.
>
> None of that would be cut. The Canadians and Australians have not gone
> "beserk" so that's just nonsense.
We are not Canadians. Tell an American with a sore knee he has to wait a
month for an MRI, and he will go ballistic, and he will fire the
congresscritter that helped make him wait that long.
> And Canadians typically can choose almost any
> provider they want, while most Americans are restricted by our crummy HMOs and
> PPOs. BTW Canadians can also purchase supplemental health care plans if
> they want an extra level of service.
You are only thinking this way because you are insulated from the actual
cost of health insurance. I pay a bit over $8000 a year for health
insurance. A typical uncovered, cash only doctor visit bill is $300 or
so, plus any extra tests. If you want to see a doctor off the list,
no one is stopping you, its a negligible additional expense. Secondly,
almost everyone is offered a choice of plans, you can go cheap or you can
go more expensive. I pay more, not for a lower deductible, but for access
to a vast list of approved doctors, and the ability to have the insurance
company pay 75% of the bill for doctors not on my list. You've made an
economic choice; enjoy the benefits and tolerate the disadvantages. If I
feel the need to go see a specialist, I just call and make an appointment;
I don't ask anyone's permission.
> Bureaucrats. Other countries pay about 1/2 of what Americans pay for health
> care and for two main reasons. The first reason is that the American system
> pays for _way_ more bureaucrats the the rest of the world.
Of course we pay more for bureaucrats. It is our nature. We love paper,
every act of congress is designed to create more paper, and more paper
requires more unionized bureacrats to process. Even the tiniest of
medical excercises generates two or more pieces of mail. It is
unreasonable to expect that will stop simply because Uncle Sam is
collecting the checks.
> payer system we have we have to pay for enough bureaucrats to maintian 4
> government systems (medicare, veterens, federal workers, military) and
> bureaucrats for dozens of little shitty private companies to look for ways to
> avoid paying you. The US system is to wasteful that we pay more _public_ money
> on health care than some countries pay to cover their entire populations. The
> 2nd reason the US pays twice what other countries pay is that their single
> payer systems have increased bargaining clout with suppliers and providers.
If the company you are annoyed at is trying to avoid paying, then maybe
that should tell you something about what they charge. You bought cheap,
and you got cheap.
> This accounts for less than 1% of the spending difference. The US spends
> about TWICE as much as other countries.
If you think a physician in England pays the same (within 1%) for medical
malpractice and general liability as a physician in Houston, you are just
absolutely off the....
>>The day our lawyers will agree to accept the same degree of payout as our
>>Northern and European competitors, maybe. Until then? Can't happen.
>
> _Every_ other First World country has a universal health care system. That
> goes for Europe, Asia, Australia, and North America. Our shitty system is a
> huge competitive disadvantage because it inflates labor costs for all American
Much of the First World has looser pays, and much lower payout amounts for
the typical bad medical outcome.
Lets can the lawyers and the bureacrats, then we can have our system, and
a reasonable financing system. But you gotta get both.
> goods and services. Because the American system keeps getting worse and worse
> every single year reform is a certaintly, the only question is when.
As long as the lawyers are taking their cut, and vast governmental,
unionized workforces are involved, it doesn't really matter whether Uncle
Sam or Aetna is collecting the dollars.
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