George Leppla wrote:
> "Reef Fish" wrote
>
> > When there are enough protests from members of a newsgroup, no
> > Rat, King Rat or not, can survive. It's only when the group members
> > are inactively tolerant of such spammers that they succeed.
>
> Ray has been posting press releases here for many, many years and this huge
> outpouring of protest you talk about just has never occurred. Granted,
> there are a vocal handful of people (like yourself) who object, but if you
> are looking for a groundswell of support from the massses, it just hasn't
> happened and I doubt it will.
>
> Why?
>
> Probably because the majority of people either find Ray's posts informative
> OR at minimum, not obtrusive. While YOU see Rays posts as spam, others see
> them differently.
True in a say. It's both a matter of principle and a matter of
frequency
for me. I haven't been a frequent user of this group because I have
been
much more involved with a sci.stat groups on more serious matters.
It was other members of this group who noticed before I did, the
frequency
and number of OTHERS in the group who began copying Ray's
announcement excuse --> come to my agency style or other kinds
of soft sell whose frequency soon make them hard sell.
When that happens, the majority will react.
>
> I would imagine that a few people here over the years have complained to
> Ray's ISP but there is enough interpretative room in the group Charter that
> a good case can be made that he is not in any violation. Yes... some people
> say it is spam, others say it is not.
See the paragraph above. Technically a single post or two of his type
is not an ad or spam. Nor is his sig a violation of net guidelines.
Group
charter is irrelevant to these. Collectively, Ray's practice is an
unmistakable spam.
>
> FWIW... I think posting press releases is not spam. I think it provides a
> good service to the readers of this newsgroup and since kill-files are so
> easy to configure, I really can't understand what the fuss is about. If you
> don't like something person XXX posts, killfile the sucker and have done
> with it. Of course, some people would rather argue on and on, and that is
> their right, too.
Try to imagine 5 Rays in any group, or even 2 or 3. You and others
may have him killfiled, but to any visitor to this group for info OR
discussion, it would be a big turn off.
In fact another unmistable sign of the spam is the FREQUENT
encounter of Ray's posts in which he is the ONLY author!! NO
DISCUSSION of any kind. Plain ads.
>
> One thing for sure... I have been around here almost as long as Ray and no
> amount of whining or gnashing of teeth seems to have ever done him any harm.
> He is probably a smarter man than I am, or more self-disciplined.
No. self-undisciplined. He seldom even interact with members of
this group, in the form of providing information ASKED or in any
discussion.
> He just
> participates here on r.t.c. as he sees fit....
on very rare occasions. He flamed me on more of his posts than
I've seen him respond to questions an info that a travel agent like
him would have.
But he is too busy looking for new news releases for his ads to
bother, or have time to engage in the normal activities of this
group. Besides, it doesn't pay.
As long as he can USE the group as a source to place FREE ADS,
why should he do otherwise?
> and ignores the people who
> disagree with him. To me, that is a good quality.
Tolerating violators of AD spammers, or by killfiling them is akin
to seeing muggers and thugs in their act of mugging and look
the other way. It's not a good quality.
>
> Just my opinion and worth what you paid for it....
So is mine. On the matter of Ray's form of ad spamming, the vast
majority of newsgroups, in fact, ALL but this group, shares my
opinion and DO something about it. Otherwise, other Rays would
have been seen there.
In fact, in Ray's early spamming career, he WAS in half a dozen
other newsgroups doing his act. Why do you think he is NO LONGER
in the other groups?
Self-discipline on his part?
-- Bob.
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