Reef Fish wrote:
> piperut wrote:
> > Reef Fish wrote:
> > > Ray Goldenberg has ceased posting of his usual ad spam of
> > >
> > > "Hi everyone ... I have a press release ..." for 2 days now.
> > >
> > > During the same two days, I've heard several posters who expressed
> > > the distaste and disdain of Ray Goldenberg's thinly disguised ads for
> > > his Travel Agency.
> > >
> > > For the first time in months, Ray actually responded to someone's
> > > question, instead of "Hi everyone ... I have a press release ..."
> > > But Ray Goldenberg fell far short of using merely his name in
> > > reponse instead of his big bill board of his Travel Agency spam.
> > >
> > > I'll leave everyone in peace for a couple of days to see if Ray has
> > > changed his pattern of spamming rec.travel.cruises.
> > >
> > > If he does return as his old self, let's ALL give him the welcome
> > > of posting one of more of the proven SLOGANS to drive
> > > roaches, rats, and other creatures away:
> > >
> > > BOYCOTT CREDITS WHO RUDELY SPAM NEWSGROUPS
> > >
> > > BOYCOTT BUSINESSES THAT RUDELY SPAM USENET GROUPS
> > >
> > >
> > > Good night, and Good Cruising,
> > >
> > > -- Bob,
> > Reef Fish,
> >
> > Everyone is going to have a bit of a different opinion on if Ray's post
> > are on topic, or off topic for rec.travel.cruises.
>
> That's NOT the issue. The issue is Ray's VIOLATION of the NO AD
> and NO SPAM Guideline of the USENET for newsgroups, and that
> rec.travel.cruises is the ONLY newsgroup blatently ignore the
> violation.
>
> > That is for the
> > people who were regulars of this group to decide, not you.
>
> What you said is correct! That's why I am rallying the support of
> others in the newsgroup by exposing Ray's hedious act of using
> rec.travel.cruises for his ADS.
>
>
> > Now, I have no idea where you came up with your ideas of "No
> > Advertising on Usenet" idea".
>
> That idea is universally known, and universally practiced and
> honored in ALL USENET newsgroups that are NOT specifically
> set up for "marketing" or "sales".
>
>
> > There is a FAQ on how to advertise on USENET:
> >
> > http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/advertising/how-to/part1/
>
> And it says, among other things what spammers should NOT do,
>
> *> 2. *.forsale and *.marketplace newsgroups
>
> *> There are many newsgroups directly involved in selling. You
> *> can generally spot them by the word "forsale" or "marketplace"
> *> in their names.
>
> I would have no objection to Ray or anyone else going to those
> groups to place their ADS, or create webpages to promote and
> sell their services.
>
> rec.travel.cruises is NOT one of the newsgroups to do it.
>
>
> > Reef Fish, a little research shoots you all to Dante's Inferno on
> > that one.
>
> The above FAQ was one man's opinioin -- a pretty good one at that.
>
> But what YOU, in your blinded prejudices, did not realize is that
> ANYONE can create and post a FAQ, for any newsgroup or post
> it anywhere in USENET!
>
> A FAQ is never an authority or universal Guideline of Rule -- what
> every group knows and practices IS.
>
> I could write a FAQ about advertising in rec.travel.cruises, and that
> would NOT violate any charter of this group OR the usenet guidelines.
> But then if I quoted myself, it would hardly be fair support of my
> protest of what Ray and other spammers are doing, would it?
>
>
>
> > However, that is besides the point about Ray and his posts. They are
> > on topic about cruising and his .sig file compiles with RFC 1855
> > Paragraph 2.1.1 bullet 8.
> >
> > Make things easy for the recipient. Many mailers strip header
> > information which includes your return address. In order to ensure that
> > people know who you are, be sure to include a line or two at the end of
> > your message with contact information. You can create this file ahead
> > of time and add it to the end of your messages. (Some mailers do this
> > automatically.) In Internet parlance, this is known as a ".sig" or
> > "signature" file. Your .sig file takes the place of your business card.
> > (And you can have more than one to apply in different circumstances.)
> > You can also see the webpage:
> >
> > http://lipas.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/signatur.html
> >
> > That states:
> > The question of a proper signature can cause perhaps more arguments
> > than any other single netiquette issue (besides spam). Superficially,
> > and technically the main issues would seem clear:
> > =B7 No more than four lines. Occasionally called the "4-line McQuary
> > limit".
>
> That is a well-known guideline, NOT needed to be stated in any group
> charter. That is UNIVERSAL in all USENET groups.
>
> Nitpicking about the number of lines in a sig specifically used for
> a BILLBOARD FOR AN AD is very literal and myopic and against
> the spirit of the USENET charter and practice.
>
> Try this on any thread on any cruise line:
>
> I have press releases and brochures about this line.
>
> Ray
> Ray GoldenAd Travel Agency
> 800-123-999 or 123-456-7899
> Fax: 876-555-5555 or 333-4444-444
> http://www.goldenadtravel.com
>
> Would that violate the rec.travel.cruises charter?
>
> Is that an AD or what?
>
> And when similar ADs are made 10,000 times when EVERYONE
> recognizes them to be ADS, it doesn't matter HOW you try to
> palm it off, using loophole arguments, they are ADS and SPAMS.
>
>
> > In Ray's post's he complies with the RFC, and his posts are on
> > topic for a newsgroup about cruises.
>
> See the above about Ray GoldenAd.
>
> BOYCOTT CRETINS WHO RUDELY ADVERTISES AND SPAMS
> NEWSGROUPS.
>
>
> > Reef Fish, do you research prior to posting or you are going to look
> > like a fool. There are people on this newsgroup who actually spend
> > time doing research prior to posting something as insane as what you
> > posted.
>
> Why don't you do a little research and look around USENET newsgroups
> yourself!
>
> You have a VERY SKIMPY life time posting history in newsgroups,
> and most of them were NOT rec.travel.cruises -- 63 threads in your
> life time.
>
> What suddenly made you know so much about USENET rules and
> guidelines?
>
> Do a Google search using the keywords "BOYCOTT BUSINESS
> THAT RUDELY ADVERTISE" or "BOYCOTT CRETINS"
>
> and you'll find well over 1000 threads in various newsgroups
> against the Ray Goldenberg type of ad and spamming practice!
> or "BOYCOTT CRETINS"
>
>
> > Now for some reason, you have a group of people who want to take over
> > this newsgroup, and attempt to claim it as something you created and
> > control. I do not know why you are attempting to destroy
> > rec.travel.cruises?
> >
> > roland
>
> That's your paranoia and fantasy. Why would anyone want to take
> over this newsgroup? Anyone can create a newsgroup anyday.
>
> It's a matter of drawing attention to VIOLATORS of NO AD policies
> in all usenet newsgroups!
>
> You are a "Clueless Newbie" in USENET and in newsgroups, Piperut.
>
> -- Bob,
Reef Fish,
Don't know how long you have been posting. Read the references. I
have been posting since 1988.
Show me references about a "No Ad Policy" please. Read the charter for
rec.travel.cruises.
Actually, to create a newsgroup in the Big 8 takes a good deal of work.
To create an alt. group, can be done by anyone. =20
roland
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