"Sanja" ha scritto nel messaggio
news:euoree$f8p$1@ss408.t-com.hr...
>
> "tile" wrote in message
>
>> as to Craotia.: Istria and Dalmatia.(coast )
>> both of them belonged to thew Republic of Venice till the Republic of
>> venice was conquered by napoleon and SIMPLY sold to Austria. (treaty of
>> Campoformido )
>> The official language in these parts was always.. Venetian dialect..
>> the geografical maps had names ONLY in venetian dialect
>>
>> the offcial language of the Austrian navy was always Venetian dialect..
>> The majority of Istrian inhabitants was Venetian.. and the main towns of
>> the dalmatian coast were in a great majority inhabited by Venetian
>> speaking people.
>> Pls note we are talking about people who had been there for hundreds of
>> years. not invaders or occupying people. Croatians had never been there..
>> they were the cheap labour force used by venetians..
>
> You should bear in mind that Croatians inhabited the coast of Dalmatia
> before the Venetians invaded it. And that Italian (venetian dialect),
> Croatian and Latin coexisted for centuries. You should also note the way
> they treated the land and the native inhabitants of the Dalamatian coast
> and be aware of the fact that they were intruders who occupied the land
> just as Germans have occupied, say, Poland in 1939.
>
>> that said.. it is a fact that after the Peace treaty of Paris 350.000
>> Venetian dialect speaking people had to leave the coutnry leaving behind
>> everything..
>> between 20.000 to 30.000 civilians were killed for almost no reason.
>
> That is unfotunately true. Peace treaties and politics don't give a damn
> about the people and because of some arrangements made in Paris and London
> a lot of people had lost their homes. Besides that, partisans killed a
> number of Italian speaking inhabitants of Istria and Slovenia.
>
>> This year is has been decided to make in Italy a special day as Day of
>> Remembrance..
>> to rember those days when speaking an italian dialect was a good enough
>> reason to be killed.
>> there was an Irate reaction of the Croatian Prime Minsiter..
>
> The problem is that Italian fascist politics that began in the 1920-ies
> led to murders of non-Italians in the lands they occupied, people were
> forced to speak Italian and to change their names. That situation lasted
> for more than 20 years and after the capitulation of Italy in 1943 and the
> end of WW2 in 1945 partisans killed Italians out of retribution.
>
>> Many Coratian names were invented. they simply did not exist before the
>> end of the war.
>
> Yeah right. Take Fiume (present-day Rijeka) for instance. It's first
> mentioned name in history is Rika (which is a cakavian dialect of Croatian
> language and means Rijeka). Venetians occupied Fiume in the 16th century
> (after they burned the city down and robbed and demolished anything they
> could) and that's when Italian term Fiume (which means River and is a
> translation of the Croatian Rijeka) was introduced.
>
>>
>> so. I find it at least too simple to say that Serbians were or are bad.
>> Yougoslavia was allowed to make etnichal cleansings for political
>> reasons.. and Croatia itself committed many muirders agains muslim
>> minorities. jsu recently enoug.
>
> Croatia didn't make ethnic cleansing of muslim minority. During the war in
> Croatia muslim minority was siding with Croatians. However, after Croatia
> in 1995 regained territories occupied by Serbs in 1991 there have been a
> number of killings of Serbs that remained on that teritory.
>
> I live in Rijeka and I know a thing or two about the history of my city
> and my region. You shouldn't be so narrow-minded because your shauvinist
> attitudes won't get you anywhere. From my personal experience I know that
> Rijeka and Istria are multicultural regions and a lot of people that
> inhabit it are of mixed origin. So I as being part Italian, part Croatian
> and part Slovenian can't be partial as you are because of your superficial
> knowledge of the subject. You should take things with a pinch of salt and
> try to see the whole picture. A lot of wrong has been done in this region.
> I personally find all crimes equally repulsive and I condemn both Italian
> crimes in the Adriatic region as well as the crimes commited by the
> partisans after WW2 or the crimes commited by Croats and Serbs during the
> 1990-ies. But when talking about 20th century crimes in Europe, it would
> be only fair to admit that the worst evil of the 20th century came from
> Italy and Germany and not from the Slaves who were always playing
> supporting roles during history.
>
well. Croatia has just to recognize that they are willing to pay
indemnities to Italians. and allow them to buy properties.
then they will enter Europe and everything will be settled.
But pls do not try to deny that Istria has always been Italian speaking..
that peace treaties had been violated by the Yougoslan government.... and
this cannot be denied.
or don't you know about Zone A and Zone B ???
wasn't it a violation of peace treaty ?? ( besides.. Yougoslavia was not
one of thewinning countries.. )
as italy was not in any position to oppose those treaties
infringements.. we just want people to know who did what
And pls do not deny that Croatian destroyed the bridge of Mostar for no
reason at all.
Pls do not deny that all registeres have been destroyed by Yougosloav
authoties.. exactly to avoid knowing how many italian speaking people lived
before the war in the towns they occupied.
and pls clarify that most of the crimes committed agains civilians were
AFTER the second world war. in fact between 1945 and 1948. ( yes we are
talking about 1948.. )
Slovenia has given a list of civilians that were killed AFTER the war.
apologized and paid indemnities.
and Slovenia is now part of Europe. ( apparently about 1200 civilians were
killed AFTER the war in the zone now occupied by Slovenia)
and pls tell me since when Italian speaking people were granted to have
their own Political party. their own schools. and pls clarify that Italian
speaking people were obliged in any case to give up their citizenship and
take croatian citizenship by force.
and pls tell me who was in Istria and Dalmazia Before the venetians occupied
it.
and give me example of Croatian names of towns in Istria.. before the
Yougoslav occupation.
besides.. it is in the eyes of everybody how the most known towns have
venetian style in the monuments.
so. Venetians did not destroy.. but build
the town of Ragusa ( Or Dubrovnik ) is an example..
In any case. it is finally time to settle after more tha 50 years these
things..
It is Yr Government who does not want.
they even are refusing people WHO WANT TO BUY BACK their own properties to
do it.
and strangely enough. Germans and Austrians are allowed. ( or German nazi
troops were not killing anybody in Croatia DURING the war ?? )
Soooo.. acccept the European rules. pay indemnities.
and you are welcome.
But call things their own names.
Facts are facts. treaties are treaties.. opinions are opinions.
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