On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 21:17:57 GMT, grant kinsley
wrote:
>On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 22:22:02 GMT, john_kulp@... (John Kulp)
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 20:04:55 GMT, grant kinsley
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>>>What on earth could that mean? Just how can anyone measure by what's
>>>>>>>"major"?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Uh, you could start with sales. The major ones sell the most
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>crappy determinant, how about the drugs that actually produce an
>>>>>effective change in the.utic methods. Just because a new birth
>>>>>control pill becomes more popular because of lining american doctors
>>>>>pockets does not mean it's a major new drug from any meaningful
>>>>>perspective to the general population.
>>>>
>>>>Back to bashing are you? Just when you were beginning to be sensible.
>>>>There are, of course, lots of ways to measure this and sales IS the
>>>>most common. If I had a serious disease, however, my first one would
>>>>be the one that effectively treated that disease whether anyone else
>>>>bought it or not. That's why the saying "statistics don't lie. Liars
>>>>use statistics."
>>>
>>>
>>>Not bashing, the simple fact is that sales are not a good determinant
>>>of quality, inventiveness or efficacy. Those are the considerations
>>>that really mean something, and for the argument, one should be using
>>>originality. Your own arguments were about innovation.
>>
>>I already said there were more ways to look at things than just sales,
>>but sales is the measure most commonly available for measurement.
>>Where are you numbers for measuring those you mentioned?
>>
>>>
>>>If you want to measure the impact of drug development, you should use
>>>a standard that actually has an impact on how it impacts patient
>>>health and change in standard of treatment.
>>
>>Funny, they have done this for years for Lipitor which is by far the
>>biggest selling drug worldwide, or are you now arguing that it has no
>>impact on mortality or morbidity?
>>
>>>
>>>The development of simvastatin as the first marketable statin was
>>>important, it had global impact on how we treat and prevent heart
>>>disease, the development of Lipitor and Crestor were simply ways for
>>>other drug companies to cash in. Lipitor selling more than Zocor and
>>>Crestor has everything to do with marketing.
>>
>>Complete nonsense. There us considerable differences between these
>>statins and their combinations with other drugs, creating Vytorin, for
>>example, which both raises significantly good cholesterol and lowers
>>the bad. Simivastin, in fact, is one of the components of Vytorin.
>>And, for your information, it was NOT the first marketable statin.
>>Lovastatin was. Mevastatin was the first discovered, which occurs
>>naturally, but wasn't marketed. And Crestor is viewed as an outright
>>dangerous statin as viewed by many professionals who think it should
>>be pulled from the market Just like Bayer's Baycol was. Oops. That
>>was a major European drug wasn't it?
>
>Your full of shit, Crestor is no different in safety profile vs.
>Lipitor, it is cheaper, it produces less effect on HDL than Lipitor at
>half the dose, so dose dependant SE are much less. Oops, Bayer is an
>American company, was confiscated in WWii and i based in the U.S.
>
>Vytorin is a combination drug, it does not significantly raise HDL, it
>has drops it the same as Lipitor, it's just that the Ezetrol component
>that has no effect on HDLt. It has all the risks of Lipitor.
>
>Oh by the way, Zocor was R&D by Merck concurrently with Mevacor, it
>was released later to compete with the competitions more potent
>Pravachol, allowing Merck to release Mevacor and keep a little more
>patent life on Zocor, it was truly the first discovered marketable
>statin.
>
>Do some damn research
>>
>>>
>>>Your argument that 90% of all good medical things are american needs
>>>measurement by a standard that is meaningful in the practice of
>>>medicine and patient outcome, sales aren't it.
>>
>>Which I never said, of course, but obviously from the above, accuracy
>>isn't your forte.
>>
>>>
>>>FWIW Crestor is better than Lipitor, and is the only statin with
>>>minimal HDL effect, Lipitor is no better than Zocor.
>>
>>Baloney. Crestor is quicker acting and nothing more and most probably
>>outright dangerous. Zocor and Lipitor are roughly equivalent for most
>>people but can vary dramatically individually. Vytorin beats them
>>both head and shoulders (I know because I have used both Lipitor and
>>Vytorin). And Lipitor, unlike all the others is the only one that has
>>been shown to actually reduce arterial clogging as well.
>
>No Crestor is at least twice asd potent as Crestor for equivalent
>dosing, HDL suppression is significantly less. It is absolutely no
>more dangerous than Lipitor.
>
>As far as Vytorin vs. Lipitor, it's 2 drugs moron, of course it works
>better than Lipitor, it's Lipitor and Ezetrol. It takes Vytorin 20 to
>equal Crestor 10. and no Lipitor doesn't have an endothelial effect,
>that's Lipitor combined with an ACE, marketed in a combo-form called
>Caduet.
Oops, mistake here, Vytorin is Ezetrol + Zocor, my mistake (Vytorin is
not marketed in Canada)
I'd rather them be separate as I add Ezetrol to Crestor for better
effect.
Oh, by the way, just this month, Crestor was shown to be the only
statin showing actual reduction of arterial plaque, just read it 10
minutes ago, so not only does Lipitor not do it as you claimed, but
Crestor does.
GK
>
>I should know, I'm a physician, I see the results every day working in
>a population that is very homogeneous with a high penetration of
>genetic hypercholesterolemia.
>
>Oh, and all the ranting about the dangers of statins, rhabdomyolysis
>is exceedingly rare, I've seen a true case once in 19 years, and it
>was easily reversed by stopping the statin.
>
>You are truly a boob.
>
>GK
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