"Greg Mossman" wrote in message
news:41fd687f$0$104$6c56adcd@news.qnet.com...
> "Marior" wrote in message
> news:RVbLd.222231$8l.208540@pd7tw1no...
>
> >> Nope, just naive tourists like you and the rest of the cruisers. When
> >> you
> >> leave the safety and seclusion of your all-inclusive or you get off the
> >> boat, you impinge on the rest of us.
> >
> > Let me know how to do some more impinging... anything other than dark
> > socks?
>
> Crowding the sidewalks really pisses me off. Actually any sort of tourist
> crowding pisses me off. Stop the damn crowding. If I want to be crowded
> I'll travel to Asia.
Agreed actually. I'm spoiled with places I can go whenever I want for
seclusion. Its definitely a Canada perk. That said Banff townsite drives me
batty. I can only be in certain places for so many hours then....
>
> > Statistically, thats highly probable. I could go to Columbia for
vacation
> > and have a astronomically high probability of getting out. That said
some
> > places are still just riskier than others.
>
> As are some actions, like bicycling.
Absolutely. I wonder whether we all all make more allowances for risk with
activities we each REALLY enjoy. Your love of diving likely makes you
consider the quality of dive far before the local politics, stability of the
country, risk etc. I've modified some of my biking locales but the risk is
still definite.
>
> >> Apology accepted.
> >
> > knew you'd say that.
>
> I could have rejected your apology but I was trying to show you what a
nice
> guy I really am.
heh, Try harder ;)
>
> > heh, we have decidedly different takes on the stay away levels... now
I'm
> > kinda wondering whether say Columbia, Indonesia, have any decent dive
ops
> > you've frequented?
>
> Indonesia? Heck yeah, but I haven't made it over there yet. That's for
> next year. In 2004 I merely braved the terrorism and tsunamis of southern
> Thailand and drove cross-country (no bicycles for me) and walked around
the
> streets of Quito, Ecuador late at night where the submachinegun-carrying
> police also have Rottweilers on chains that growl and lunge at you as you
> pass by. Also a trip to the dangerous jungles of Los Cabos, MX where I
> actually drove there too, risking bandits and insurgents to dive up at
Cabo
> Pulmo, a 2-hour drive away. I did get lost on the way back, turning the
> wrong way at the junction town of La Ribera, and when a sinister little
> school pointed out the way it turned out to be the wrong way. I could
have
> been killed had she been wrapped in high explosives as a booby-trap for
> unsuspecting tourists like me or lured me into the insurgent's den.
Instead
> I soon realized my mistake, retraced my steps, and soon found the highway
> back to my treacherous non AI hotel.
You get bored easy?
>
> The scariest moment was when I cracked open a cold beer to mellow me for
the
> long drive back and about halfway down I ingested some chunks. There's
> nothing scarier than finding chunks in your beer. I immediately rolled
down
> the window and spat them out, but I couldn't get that chunky taste out of
my
> mouth no matter how much beer I drank.
hopefully a different brand...
>
> > On this one it turns out you're right.
>
> I'm always right.
I had that feeling
>
> > Nah, its relatively safe, certainly safer than mexico
>
> Mexico is a big country. There are plenty of places within Mexico that
are
> much safer than Waikiki.
Thats really still stretching
>
> > http://www.benbest.com/lifeext/murder.html#world
>
> Skewed by border and Mexico City crime. Not a reality in the tourist
areas,
> all-inclusive or not.
Ah but you don't know where I would want to go if I went to Mexico. Mexico
City is one.
>
> > Turns out Honolulu is the safest city in America in regards to the stat
> > I'm
> > most concerned about. Homicide. Hawaii as a state is also about as
> > *murderous* as Iowa, New Hampshire, and Idaho. Exactly what I figured.
> > This
> > is highly consistent with my view on Hawaii feeling like a relatively
safe
> > place Greg. Any rebuttal?
>
> Homicide rates are so low anyway as to be statistically nothing to worry
> about.
I covered that in my last post in reference to making it out of Columbia.
Where I differ from you is I still factor the Mexico level as something to
pay close attention to. You seem to dismiss it because its highly unlikely.
That doesn't dimiss the 100k's of murders that have occurred there.
You're much more likely to be victimized by thieves and Hawaii has
> one of the highest larceny rates in the U.S.
Hope you don't mind if I don't take you at face value on that as you've been
about as wrong as is possible on many points in the thread thus far. But
anyhow, Larcenys not my 1st concern as none of these robber types attempts
to jack me personally as theres always an easier target just headed down the
road. If it ever did happen the 50 bucks can be readily replaced, my life
can't, homicides all I really worry about.
Homicide is very, very, very
> unlikely even if you're walking around bad areas of Mexico City late at
> night and you wouldn't be doing that. It's practically non-existent in
much
> of the country.
Thats akin to saying homicide is practically non-existent in the world
today. Its all relative and relatively Mexico is close to the worst in the
globe. it exists plenty enough there that it can happen and especially to
tourists that can end up going into areas without enough knowledge.
>
> > Greg, given some of this please explain where, how, I was wrong before.
>
> Compare crime rates of, say, Ixtapa or Manzanillo,
1st of all I would rather take my vacation in Saskatoon than go to Ixtapa or
Manzanillo or Cancun. Why does anybody go to such contrived 3rd world
resorts. I can't stand the idea of going to somewhere that was a pristine
beach just recently that was destroyed just to service the go nowhere, see
nothing, all inclusive worshippers. Why leave home just to empower the
Tourism industry involved in the wrecking of yet another part of the world?
If i'm going to a resort I'd prefer something like maybe Acapulco or Puerto
Vallarta that wasn't wrecked in my life time where I can actually access
some history, some local flavor, some towns. FWIW one of my friends went to
Manzanillo just 5 years ago and not a few miles outside of Manzanilllo they
were stopped at a highly unauthorized checkpoint that was set up by a drug
cartel that was apparently looking to murder the 1st rivals that came along
and were amusing themselves in the meanwhile stopping everybody and taking
their money at gunpoint. My friend complained to local officials who did
nothing to confront the bandits who were stationed there for two full days.
My friend investigated and found that everybody locally knew what was going
on as it had happened chronically and that the authorities didn't DARE
intervene. After experiences the 1st day of the *checkpoint* none of the
tourists dared to leave town and my friends spent an entire week in
Manzanillo with nothing to do, nowhere to go. Stuck in nowhere Manzanillo.
Fun holiday.
versus crime rates in
> Honolulu. That's how you were wrong. Generalizing a localized problem to
> an entire country.
no, not wrong. You ASSUMED where I would go, what I would do, what I was
interested in, IF I went to Mexico. I'm right because my preferred areas to
go to include Mexico City and Oaxaca both areas that are problematic and I
know it. The same year as the friends went to Manzanillo we were gonna do
Oaxaca, Mexico City, Merida, and Progresso in the Yucatan and a curiosity
visit to Cancun, Cozumel, Tulum, Uxmal, Chichen itza. Merida was to be our
prime location and an axis point for exploration of the numerous
archeological sites. We had accomodation picked, arrangements made, and
backed out. Further to the Manzanillo story someone else I knew had gone to
the same sites we were going to go to and reported that they HAD to go on
tours because the carjackings, robberies on the roads leading to the sites
were so prolific that the tour buses had an armed security person on board.
Again not my idea of a great fun time for family.
I'd still be interested but maybe later in life. Merida sounds like a real
nice place, being that its slightly inland I'm not sure you'd be too
familiar with it. Nice Town for a cheap picturesque Mexican holiday though.
http://www.virtualmex.com/merida.htm
>
> > what with all the
> >> drugs and hookers walking around. You may prefer to expose your family
> >> to
> >> drugs and hookers instead of the Catholic values of a small picturesque
> >> Mexican village. That's fair.
> >
> > Until this point I was taking you somewhat seriously but its clear
you've
> > been pulling my leg... For the sake of your argument I'd certainly hope
> > thats what you were doing. You can just say yes.... Mexico?
> > Prostitution?
> > Picturesque? The very many prostitutes there are certainly not
> > picturesque,
>
> Very many prostitutes? Where do you hang out in Mexico where you see lots
> of prostitutes? I've never seen so many streetwalkers in one place as in
> Waikiki Beach on a Friday night. Mexican prostitutes aren't tramping
around
> the main streets of rural villages, they're segregated into brothels and
> strip clubs where you hopefully don't take your children.
According to some info that's of an adult nature that I won't link too its
50-50 street/brothel right now. As long as they don't do it right on the
street or in public its allowed and streetwalking is flourishing in Mexico.
>
> Though apparently they've cleaned up their act a bit:
>
> "Prostitutes were once a common sight along Kalakaua and Kuhio avenues
until
> the state Legislature passed a law in 1998 that allowed judges to impose
> so-called geographic restrictions to keep them out of Waikiki from 6 p.m.
to
> 6 a.m."
Not nearly the problem that you describe and so it looks like its been
cracked down on well enough. FTR it pales compared to anything we've
experienced in say Montreal. Not really my first concern as a family man.
kids today are well aware at an early age of everything out there anyway and
I see no benefit in providing an insular upbringing to a point the point
being for instance exposing them to the wrong end of a gun barrel.
>
> I don't think I've walked along Kalakaua late at night since 1992.
well there you go
>
> Still, "while prostitution has decreased in Waikiki, Honolulu police say
> they have investigated triple the number of offenses in neighboring
District
> 1. From January to June, police logged 45 prostitution offenses in Waikiki
> while handling 137 prostitution offenses in District 1, which primarily
> covers the area through downtown Honolulu from Liliha to Punahou streets."
>
> http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2003/Aug/31/ln/ln05a.html
sure looks like a problem existed but we noted it mainly in one area when we
were down there and we were not effected at all. Its not clear how it
really effects me anyhow. The only risk is to Johns and hookers really.
>
> > Plenty I'd bet. but its a risk I'll take.... hiking is clearly my drug
of
> > choice. A landslide or maybe concealed lavatube or whatever can happen
in
> > certain locations but other than that I'm sure footed enough not to take
> > the
> > quick elevator down the cliff.
>
> Landslides happen all the time. Hawaii is blessed with some sheer
dropoffs
> and the trails skirting them are very eroded. I got freaked out hiking
out
> of the Red Sand Beach in Hana when it started to rain hard.
One of the things that freaked me is knowing that hawaii has some of the
most rapidly eroding zones on earth, . that ol volcanic rock is always
moving dammit! I hear ya!
>
> Didn't a whole bunch of tourists get killed just a few years ago when a
big
> rock fell on their heads?
>
> "Hikers crushed by boulders at park in Oahu -- HAUULA, Hawaii (AP-Staff) -
> Rescuers using heat-seeking cameras and military search dogs failed to
find
> any more bodies yesterday in tonnes of debris left by a weekend landslide
> that killed at least six people and injured dozens of others."
>
>
http://www.highbeam.com/library/doc0.asp?docid=1P1:21556101&refid=ink_pubnew
s&skeyword=&teaser=
>
> That was in May of 1999 while I was in Maui on my honeymoon.
Yeah, I think I heard about that one. I had an experince with a landlside
on the Road to Hana that was unsettling. Whole road was blocked but they
were able to clear just enough to squeeze and I do mean squeeze the rent a
car through or spend the night right around there.... our choice.
>
> I can't believe you subject your family to such a dangerous activity.
I get your point everything has risks but theres something specifically
about murder that irks me. Strange that. On the other hand If a meteorite
falls on my head as I'm writing this cest la...............
|